Today we are posting part 1 of my chat with Vu (also know as Violet), one of my former students!
How different is marketing from the corporate side versus the agency side? How does your language affect everyone’s understanding? Today we are getting to hear from someone who has been on both sides of the research!
From marketing beginnings all the way in Vietnam, to expanding her horizons here in the Greater St. Louis area. This week, we are interviewing Vu Violet Do, one of the best Insights Consultants I know, and she was even once a student of mine!
Stay tuned for Part 2 on Thursday, November 13th!
CONTACT INFORMATION: Vu Violet Do https://www.linkedin.com/in/vudosgvn/
TRANSCRIPT:
Sean In St. Louis (00:06)
Well, hi, I’m Sean in St. Louis and this is the Marketing Gateway. And you know, sometimes you meet somebody who you have no idea is going to become a big part of your life in the years to come. And that was the case for me about 10 years ago when I was teaching a class on qualitative research methods for the Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville School of Business, Master of Marketing Research Program, and we also had an MBA student in the classroom. So.
If you can imagine, we have about 20 people in the class that are all going into what I do. They’re learning about research, right? And you have this MBA student who doesn’t have any of this research background, who is sitting there with, ⁓ you know, usually with a petrified look in their eyes about all of the work that they’re going to be asked to do. Because this is an intensive class. do a lot of reading. We do a project. We have weekly assignments that are all about research methods. And I looked at this MBA student and said, you don’t want to be here. This class is not a good elective. It’s a lot of work.
And she looked back at me and said, no, I’m OK. I’ll be fine. And I said, well, it’s your choice. And we went on. And she turned out to be one of the brightest students in the class. And it actually was because she had had a background in marketing research. Unlike everybody else in the class that was learning how to do what I do, she had already done it. And she was actually looking to broaden her skill set to do something else ⁓ so she could work more broadly in the fields of marketing and business administration. So her name is Vu Do. And Vu wound up.
working at SLUE for a little while while she finished her program. I got to know her through there. And then she came to work for me after she graduated. And ⁓ we worked together for a couple of years before she moved on to do some database marketing at the University of Missouri St. Louis, and then to work for the marketing department at UCARE, where she was the manager of the research department. I actually hired one of my other students underneath her, ⁓ which was really cool.
but she got to report to the marketing VP and work with the marketing team daily. And that was such a neat shift in her career. And I even got to work with her as a client. So you just never know how things are going to come full circle like that. But Vu and I have continued to be friends during all this time. And when I was thinking about people I could have in my first few episodes of the Marketing Gateway, of course I thought of her because she’s doing something else that I don’t know anybody that’s doing right now. And that is trying to launch
her own business. So actually, I do have one other friend that’s launching a business, but Vu is doing it in the field of personal training and fitness because she has kind of as a side hustle been doing that. She’s in really good shape and she really cares about health and fitness. And she’s been helping other people work on their fitness goals. And she wants to turn that into a business. So she’s been going around and asking people like myself who are in the business community for advice on her business plan. She’s very thoughtful and methodical about it. And we’re going to talk about all of that in this interview. But
The first part of this interview is going to be more about her background and the things she learned along the way. And the second part of the interview, which we’ll put up in a couple of days, is going to talk more about that entrepreneurial side of things. And I look at it this way. What is more exciting in the world of marketing than trying to do something new, right? Taking what you’ve learned and trying to do something new. So we’re going to hit both of those things in this series. You’re going to enjoy it a lot. Here we go.
Sean In St. Louis (03:22)
Well, we’re here with my friend, Vu Do. Vu also goes by Violet, and I’ve known Vu for a long time. And she has not only been someone who I have known as a student, because she was in my classroom way back ⁓ many years ago when she was in the MBA program. She’s also somebody that I’ve known as a coworker and someone who I’ve known as a client. I’ve just gotten to know her in all kinds of different ways. So, I’m really excited to have you on the Marketing Gateway. Thanks for joining us.
Vu Violet Do (03:49)
Well, it’s so great to be here, Sean, and thank you for the invite for sure. It’s like you said, we have a very interesting friendship, professional relationship span, different kind of settings. So at this point, I would just usually tell my family and friends that Sean Jordan is not only like a farmer colleague or a boss to me, but he’s also a family member. Putting in that great.
but it’s talking about how there was how much that we have worked together. We have been ⁓ doing a lot of different initiatives, even out of professional settings. You are such a great friend and mentor, and I’m so grateful to have you.
Sean In St. Louis (04:36)
Well, right back at you. And let me start off by asking what I always ask at the beginning of these interviews, which is to tell me something surprising that I don’t know. So you’ve told me a lot of things in life, so it’s going to be hard to surprise me. But ⁓ anything you’d like to share, what’s something surprising?
Vu Violet Do (04:52)
Uh, yeah, I thought a lot about this question. People ask me every once in a while as well. It’s a good icebreaker question. Now, I think you know a good amount about my life across almost 10 years. Wow, you know, you know me. You know that I had a very humble background. I grew up, didn’t have much that you know. But I think something you did not know I rarely ever share with people is
Just to explain how humble I grew up, I usually using the word poor, but it just basically, there was not much. So one fact is, before I turned 28 years old, I never had a bedroom of my own. That’s how I grew up. My family never had a bedroom for me. No. So I never had a personal bedroom.
Sean In St. Louis (05:46)
Wow.
Vu Violet Do (05:49)
until I, ⁓ honestly, until I got married and ⁓ sharing a place with my husband. I never got my own bedroom before I turned 28 years old or so. Yes. ⁓
Sean In St. Louis (05:58)
Wow, I did not know that. of course, you grew up in Vietnam and in Ho Chi Minh City, and
you worked in Asia for a little while in ⁓ the capacity of market research, which we’ll talk about in just a moment. But tell me how you came to live and work in the St. Louis area, because we’re really focused on St. Louis right now. So how did you get to be here?
Vu Violet Do (06:12)
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah, it all started at SIUE, Southern Illinois University at Westville where we met and where I met you as you were my instructor for one of the courses that I took at the time. The reason I went to Southern Illinois University at Westville was I received ⁓ two full scholarships, graduate assistantship for my master business administration in the US.
One was with the University of Louisiana, Lafayette, and the other one was SIUE. And at the time when I had those two options, I did a lot of research asking friends in the United States and they asked which one is better. And I got a lot of recommendation to come to SIUE, a great school in a really great area. And I just make that decision and there I was, August 2015, I was…
Yeah, I arrive in the St. Louis-Greeter metro area to attend school at SIU.
Sean In St. Louis (07:29)
And I remember that class
because there were a lot of international students in that class. But almost all of them were working on a Master of Marketing Research degree, which is what the class was for. And you were the lone MBA student in there. And I think I told you the first night, you might not want to be in this class. ⁓
Vu Violet Do (07:35)
Thank you.
Thank
Yep.
I know.
Sean In St. Louis (07:48)
⁓ but as, as we’re learning about qualitative research, turned out you had a background in marketing research and actually had, and nobody else in the room had done that. So, you were actually were the most experienced person in the room, even though it wasn’t the degree you were working on. ⁓
Vu Violet Do (07:50)
you
you
Yeah,
so much fun.
Sean In St. Louis (08:06)
Well, what’s
something about the St. Louis area that you wish other people knew?
Vu Violet Do (08:11)
Well, I think many people knew but I think ⁓ people from St. Louis, I may make this wrong ⁓ summary as well. Maybe many people already said but I like for people to know that St. Louis is a really great place to live. We have low cost of living, we have a really amazing scene of cuisine and music and that was made up by a pretty much diverse population.
of basically like St. Louis and people who live here coming from different parts of the country and the world. I also love the fact that like we have four seasons here. Coming from Vietnam or the tropical area of Asia, I only had two seasons when I was living in ⁓ Southeast Asia. It’s either the rainy season or the sunny season. And I came to St. Louis and like, my gosh, I actually have spring.
and fall here, ⁓ and winter time, that was amazing. So I think St. Louis is a really great place to live.
Sean In St. Louis (09:19)
Well, fantastic. Well, I know we’re glad to have you here in St. Louis. And of course, in the time that I’ve known you, you’ve worked not just in St. Louis, but at companies that are in other places around the country too. And why don’t we start by talking a little bit about how you got started in a marketing career. So you started out in Asia and then you came to the US and then started doing some other things here. And I know a lot of it’s been research centric, but tell me a little bit about how you got started on this path.
Vu Violet Do (09:46)
Yeah, I think my marketing career was actually like a destiny I kind of like. When I first graduated from my undergraduate degree, I…
Honestly, at the time I did not know what I was gonna do. ⁓ I have a bachelor degree in international business, so basically it could be anything, pretty much. For the degree that I had with the National University of Vietnam, I was actually focused on the track to work in logistics and supply chain. That’s nothing related to marketing much, and I did not have a lot of marketing education. Now, at the time when I graduated with that bachelor degree,
I was lucky enough to be selected for a management program for a ⁓ retail department store in Singapore. So I moved to Singapore to live half a year and be their management trainee. And after that six months, I came back to Vietnam and I was honestly, I did not know what kind of job I’m going to do, what industry, because my six months of experience was literally learning a little bit of everything.
It’s a management trainee for a retail environment. So I honestly could go anywhere and do any job after that. And at the time is ⁓ pretty much I use the word destiny because I have a very good girlfriend who graduated from the same program in undergraduate time with me. And my friend was a very talented ⁓ student when she was in school. She was one of the brightest that I knew.
When she was in school, she was not only ⁓ taking the degree in business, but she also studied Japanese besides English. upon graduation, when I separated my way to go to Singapore, she met a Japanese startup in Vietnam. And she was very passionate about helping that startup with her knowledge about business in Vietnam. She could speak English.
She could communicate with the team in Japanese. was a home package. Chuan is a home package. So she was of the founding member of that startup in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. And the goal of that Japanese company, which started out as an IT and web marketing services company based in Tokyo, was they wanted to build one of the very first online market research.
panels in Southeast Asia and also launched market research services in Southeast Asia and Vietnam was the very first point that they had. ⁓ So fast forward when I came back from Singapore, the team was growing. They were looking for a business development person to do a little bit of everything, kind of like help building up their products and services in Vietnam and then later Indonesia and Thailand.
They also want to have a kind of like a client manager face who can speak English to clients from around the world. And my girlfriend just literally came to the CEO and said, my girlfriend came back from Singapore, which is a country where they spoke English. So think about her. And they interviewed me and I got a job and I joined the team, which was a startup and it was a lot of fun, but it was so much work as well.
However, that was kind of like the very important milestone ⁓ to help me set out my career in marketing because the startup that I joined slowly grew up. ⁓ I was technically the person who accompanied a CEO to establish new company in Indonesia and Thailand, but it doesn’t matter what kind of work that I did. ⁓
point of the business is we are going to provide market research solutions and web marketing solutions to clients. So basically I had no way but learn as much as I could about market research and digital marketing at the time and that’s how I started my career and I’m like I love it. ⁓
Sean In St. Louis (14:16)
And you know, I remember you being back in the classroom, gosh, what, 2017, 2016, somewhere around then. And you were, you eventually came and worked for us at RPG and we were coworkers for a little while too. And one of the things that I was always really impressed about was that you,
Vu Violet Do (14:22)
Thank
Sean In St. Louis (14:37)
not only you had all these skills and you were great at applying them towards your classwork, you’re great at applying them here at RPG, but you also had all these other things that ⁓ you were doing on the side. And one of those things was you were learning how to do database marketing. And eventually you ⁓ used that to go and ⁓ transition your career a little bit to some different kinds of jobs. So you’d been on the agency side in Asia and with us, you’d seen kind of what that was like. Then you went over to the corporate side. So
How is it a little different when you went into that world where you’re working more on the corporate side instead of as an agency?
Vu Violet Do (15:12)
Yeah, Sean, that is a really great question because I think I was lucky to experience both sides. So I saw the difference, but I’m not so sure if it’s very obvious to many people. I think the work at an agency was, it’s not that it’s not deep, but the work that we provide to the client from an agency viewpoint, it was pretty broad.
And it was not deep enough in terms of making impact to the business. And I would explain why I said so. Meanwhile, the work at the corporate and client organization, it was a little bit more narrow, I would say, in terms of the ⁓ amount of knowledge or the amount of basically the scope of the work. However, that work…
was able to generate more impact onto the business result. And I said so because basically from an agency, even when at the time when I was working with you, for you, actually you were my boss and I learned so much from you, Sean. We provided many ⁓ market research projects for a variety of clients, right? And even sometimes, for example, at ⁓ RPG, we
We did the work for many organ procurement organizations. We did that work and you and David at the time were the expert of the industry. You guys understand the industry so well. You provided really good solutions for the clients. However, from my viewpoint, when we were at the agency, we can provide the client with a research project where we design.
We collect the data, we analyze it, and we create a report for them. And we also provided them with actionable insights. I remember that you provided clients with a lot of really great recommendations on how the clients can basically improve their brand performance or basically tighten up the engagement with the audience and customer.
Did that work provided from us really create an impact like being real realized at an organization level? I would think that like it’s a yes and it could also be a no. And the reason for that was we were not in charge or we were not having the contribution in making the change or realize the recommendation at that organization.
So we did not know if the work was going to be done or not. It was different when I was with the corporate world. For example, even not corporate world, but kind of like in client side, when I was working at the University of Missouri before, ⁓ I transferred to UK and right after RPG as well, ⁓ I did a little bit of survey and then I got to know that the student was complaining that they got very slow communication, that communications work.
clunky from the department that I worked with. So I learned that that was an insight that I worked on. ⁓ But because I was at the organization, so I had the ability to recommend the organization to implement some changes that really bring that actionable insight into like an action that gonna fix a problem that the customer, which was student at the University of Missouri that I worked before.
And ending up, left UMSL with a whole new automated communication ⁓ platform. It’s based on my database marketing knowledge that you share. So I was able to create an impact. And then similar like that in my one, the time when I was with YouCare Minnesota, within my marketing team, for every research, we learned a good number of
information on how customer responded to our marketing acquisition campaign. Did we have the ability to kind of ⁓ implement the changes recommended from the research? Yes, we did. And the reason was I was there. I was working with my team. So after the research, I would be able to explain to my team that, OK, when we look at this research,
It proves the fact that people living in Twin Cities, Minnesota respond more towards digital marketing, while people who live out of that metropolitan area, they would prefer to receive direct mail in their Medicare communication. What we could do would be ship more money and efforts into running more digital marketing campaigns within the Twin Cities metropolitan area.
and ship more dollars towards direct mail. When we communicate with people out of like that area, we had the ability to really take action based on the research. And I believe that I was a part of making those kinds of change that brought more, ⁓ I would say that it’s more critical results that help solve a problem that the customer have. So that’s how I see that like the difference.
between the agency. Agency is really broad and great work for sure, ⁓ but it did not have the ability to go deep enough to create change and then create long impact on the organization. While if I work with the end client, I have that ability to generate the change.
Sean In St. Louis (21:20)
Yeah, and I even remember when we were working with you when you were at UCARE, ⁓ because you were so knowledgeable about the internal culture, you had to kind of advise us in terms of when you’re talking about the research, you need to make sure you say this or that, because otherwise there may be somebody that challenges the research and then you won’t get past being able to talk about that challenge and get to the actual point. So I think when you’re on the internal side, ⁓ the power that you have in terms of just the institutional knowledge is very high.
Whereas when you’re on the agency side, you can get blindsided by those things, right?
Vu Violet Do (21:53)
Yeah,
it’s definitely and I think it was I mean both sides have its pros and cons. I had a blast working from the agency side and I was I consider myself blessed because I had really great teams to work with. That has been kind of like something that I’m proud about my professional career that I got to work with like really great people where I could learn from them.
and then I can solve problems with them. But it’s exactly like you said. ⁓ When we were at an end client, especially if it is kind of a relatively big organization, ⁓ coming from Southeast Asia, my teams make up of four teams in Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand. We were roughly 80 people at the time that we left.
There was 20 something that I helped build up in Vietnam, but like relatively small, less than 100 people. And we were at RBG, we have less than 20 people. So we were a relative, like very clean and neat agency. Over the organization, when I was at UMSOL, they had 1300 employees. When I was at UK Minnesota, they had 1700 employees. So the size of the companies were really big.
There was so many bureaucracy in the way. I think that was also a learning curve for me. Because when I was at the agency side, I would be able to, you were my boss at that time. If I think about like, how about can we change our service from A to B to C order and then combine A and B so we can provide faster solutions in those kind of like research framework that we work on. You’re gonna look at that. You’re gonna be, this is efficient.
Let’s do that. That’s not how it was. That was not how it worked in the corporate world. We had to went through layer and layer of approval from management level one, management level two, management level three. I still remember when I was at YouCare, ⁓ had ⁓ every year I’m gonna have like a big survey that I run for the…
that I run for the company and the whole research cost was 20 something thousand dollars that I need my department to sign so I can get the research went on and every year around that time when I ran that tracking research I had to keep an eye and I have to constantly talking with the legal department and finance department because I want to know when my vendor sent the request
the order request for us to sign and approve. I need that approval signature from my bosses. So they get ⁓ the project signed. And then after that, they would be able to launch our survey into their online panel system. And I remember I was just very always nervous because I have a long checklist that I’m going to.
Check with legal to see if they get any email. Check with finance if they got any email that morning that I plan to launch my survey. And then check with my VP of marketing to see if he already signed the document so I could run it. So there was layers and layers of approval for just one simple action. And I think that was also something that ⁓ it talks so much about the difference at the end client is.
bigger more clunky, which is why it’s also affect the way that I work. When I was at an agency, I think for every project when we ran from an agency viewpoint, we can conduct a research and we can wrap it up within three weeks to four weeks. At an end client, it’s not gonna be faster than two months because we have so many approval steps that it have to go up ⁓ the stream to get management approval.
Sean In St. Louis (26:05)
And I think when we’re on the agency side, we lose sight of that because we’re just so ready to get the work done. And I just recently had a client that I had to go to and say, if you want this done by this timeline, you have to give me approvals quickly. ⁓ Because I’m aware that it takes a while sometimes to get through that. And so I had to build that into the contract because that was part of the way I was going to get the work done for them on the timeline that they wanted.
Vu Violet Do (26:11)
Yes.
you
Sean In St. Louis (26:30)
Well, tell me some of the things that you’re proudest of in your career so far and how you’ve really thought about applying all those marketing skills to some of those challenges that you faced.
Vu Violet Do (26:41)
Yeah, I, is so okay. When we talk about things that we are proud of, I think up to this point, I have been working in marketing research and I would also add a term analytics after that, because I was lucky enough to learn and use data analytics in my set of marketing skill for the work that I did. And I learned a lot and
Sean In St. Louis (26:58)
Mm-hmm.
Vu Violet Do (27:09)
to respond to your questions. The experience that I had with that whole process taught me in different ways where I can apply tools or new set of knowledge in how to solve problems. But to answer your question, some of the things that make me feel proud about my 10 year plus career spanning Asia and the United States is
One was ⁓ a product that I pretty much majorly having a big contribution to launch it into market. So when I was with the company MacPermu South East Asia before I came to the US, which was also the reason why I got a scholarship because I got that work done. ⁓ was, ⁓ it sounds funny now that I look back, but the reason we have that product was because we met with
Contricks team back in 2012 during an SOMA South East Asia Pacific Conference and then my boss the CEO of the company at that time He at that time we were only trying to build ⁓ online consumer panels. So it’s kind of like if you Sean Jordan and RPG want to do a Research in South East Asia you want to have a panel provider
provide those research samples for you. So that was our original plan. We only built a panel. So we were halfway built. Our panel were pretty big at the time in 2013. And then we met with the Quantrix founding team in an Asia Pacific market research conference. How great was that? And then we chat a lot with the Quantrix team and then my boss coming back and he would just share with me that
Busan, I literally, I had this idea for so long and I never worked on it. And now, because of that conference where we met with Quantrix, we think at that time that we had the ability to build something very similar to Quantrix for the Southeast Asia targeted market. At that time, Quantrix has not really like spanned out to Asia yet. So that’s why we had the idea of like, how about we do something kind of like them?
but for the Southeast Asia market because we already have a consumer panels in Vietnam and Indonesia and Thailand. So I just took that and I worked really hard with my programming and coding and design team to, ⁓ I have to share that this is funny, but I went into and I create all kind of possible account that I can have with Contricks and Question Pro and trying to find out like how do they create
Platform where you can coming in you can create a survey and then you can also combine that with an online panel so you can launch that survey on an available online panel and create it as like a wholesome online market research platform that dedicated specifically for Southeast Asian market and That’s what I did for the last two years. I was with Macromill ⁓
At one point, I still developed the online research panel, the other side working with the technical team to develop a new product. And because of that process, during two years, I learned a really good amount about product management, which really, really helped me later. Because anytime when I have a research request from client later around product development, I understand their…
pain points and I also understand what kind of solutions I can brought them because I know the process of developing a product from the point that we have a concept. We want to test that concept. Is that concept is going to be efficient? Is it going to be valuable for the consumers or not? ⁓ After the concept, we need to design and once we design the product, for example, for software as a service,
We have to put everything together, the technical team, the design team, building a not like a website, but a platform. And then we have to keep testing a lot of ABN. ⁓ I think at that time we also got help with other consulting agency that’s better than my agency to help with the testing and confirm which version of the product was better. But I learned so much about product management that later that knowledge become helpful to me.
⁓ when I talked to clients or I was helping any client with product development. So I think the lesson that I learned from that was sometime when we got hands on, our hands dirty with building a product or ⁓ creating new solutions, we actually could observe a lot of problems that potential client can run into and then we can also having in mind that
what would be some good solutions that we can offer them in terms of like insights or testing so that they can make the right decision to develop their products. So that’s what I learned. ⁓ Another project that I was also really proud of ⁓ during my time I worked in the United States was ⁓ when I was with UK and Minnesota, we at one point I was not only supporting marketing, but I also support ⁓
product sales customer experience under an office called the Grove Division. And we have a big boss. He was an executive vice president of the Grove Division. His name is Jay, I like Jay a lot. He has a really good vision of how to use data and insights in a better way. So he put myself and a bunch of analysts from different departments and made me a captain in building a
kind of like a company-wide performance summary report that helped giving the executive leadership team and the vice president a good idea of the business performance at any point that they looked at. The reason they had that request was we were a medical insurance company every week or every month. ⁓
different departments will receive a very long 20 something pages ⁓ PVF document from a department called Healthcare Economics reporting on how many new members, meaning how many new customer we were able to acquire during the past month on project, on product ABCD. because they were a traditional organization, that work has been done for years. So nobody bothered.
feeling like, ⁓ it was 2024. Why don’t we turn these PDF into an interactive dashboard where people can come in and everything is in one place where they could click on the year 2024 and then they can see all the new enrollment, the number of customer applied during that year.
Or they can also filter that down to see Q1 different from Q2, different from Q3 and Q4. So nobody really thought about that. They only know that it was a little bit clunky that I had to wait for that PDF document to coming out every month. So my big boss gave me that project and I honestly, I did not really know what I was supposed to do at the time. So I just had to talk to a lot of stakeholders, which were…
the vice president and the leadership of different departments and I tried to ask them the question, so what do you think gonna help you in terms of consuming the information faster and more efficiently? And they would be like, well, you know, we don’t want to go through a dozens of report with different month on that. If you can put everything into something interactive where we can click and see the performance, that would be great.
It’s snack in my mind that why don’t we make a dashboard? Why don’t we’re creating a company-wide dashboard where all the numbers are gonna be here and I know a little bit about dashboard through my work at UMSL. So immediately in my mind I have an idea that like I know that with the right data source when I put them together and I organize some kind of filter and time timeline for them I will be able to generate an interactive dashboard of performance where people can
Click in and see the performance over a over a quarter, over a month, over a week and compare with each other and it will be interactive. Instead of people have to go and dig in a dozen PDF reports. So I spent a good amount of time, it was a couple of months, actually half a year to work with my analyst team across the company and by the time I left the company it was a…
pretty good ⁓ company-wide analytics dashboard that it would give the executive leadership a clear, quick, and efficient ⁓ look of how ⁓ the performance of different departments were at the time in a very time-efficient manner. Yeah.
Sean In St. Louis (37:08)
Well, what a pleasure this interview has already been and we’re just getting started because part two is going to go up in a couple of days and that’s going to involve the more entrepreneurial sides of things that Vu is up to. And of course, if you want to get in touch with Vu, you can check the show notes for her contact details. But in the meantime, I want you to get excited about what else she has to share because you’re going to learn a lot in part two. We’ll see you there. I’m Sean in St. Louis. This has been the Marketing Gateway. See you next time.
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