Today we are talking to Colson Steber, someone I’ve known for quite some time!
About Colson: As Co-CEO and Founder, Colson Steber guides strategy and marketing leaders to authentic growth led by market insights for product development and branding. He strategically bridges the gap between businesses and their consumers, ensuring companies understand and meet the real needs driving purchases. Colson’s approach generates confidence in strategic decisions.
Contact Colson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colsonsteber/
Colson’s plug: https://qlarityaccess.com/
The Marketing Gateway is a weekly podcast hosted by Sean in St. Louis (Sean J. Jordan, President of https://www.researchplan.com/) and featuring guests from the St. Louis area and beyond.
Every week, Sean shares insights about the world of marketing and speaks to people who are working in various marketing roles – creative agencies, brand managers, MarCom professionals, PR pros, business owners, academics, entrepreneurs, researchers and more!
The goal of The Marketing Gateway is simple – we want to build a connection between all of our marketing mentors in the Midwest and learn from one another! And the best way to learn is to listen.
And the next best way is to share!
For more episodes: https://www.themarketinggateway.com
Copyright 2025, The Research & Planning Group, Inc.
TRANSCRIPT:
Sean Jordan (00:07)
Hi, I’m Sean in St. Louis and welcome to the Marketing Gateway. And today we’re gonna hear a meeting of the minds. Okay, because I have on as a guest someone who is much like me. ⁓ he has been a marketing research professional for ⁓ well over a decade, and he and I have interacted in many different places and spaces ⁓ because we’re kind of having parallel careers, although we’re in different focuses.
And his name is Colson Stever. And Colson is the co-CEO and the founder of Clarity Access, which is a marketing research company, full service, much like the one that I run. And he is from St. Louis. as you’re gonna hear in the interview, he’s moved to a different place, but still has a lot of affection for our area and still serves our area in many ways. And he is one of those people that if you need some insights, if you need some real good.
Thought provoking discussion. He’s one of those people you call up. So we’re gonna have a thought provoking discussion. We’re gonna talk about the ins and outs of marketing research. And we’re gonna try to make it approachable, even if you’re not a researcher, that you can learn something from it. So enjoy.
Sean Jordan (01:23)
Well, welcome back to the marketing gateway. I’m Sean in St. Louis, and today I have with me Colson Stever. And Colson, so glad to have you on the show.
Colson Steber (01:32)
Very glad to be here.
Sean Jordan (01:34)
And Colson, I’ve I’ve known you for a while. We’re both ⁓ researchers who have ⁓ intersected in quite a few w different ways. But ⁓ you know, one of the things I like to do is ask guests when they’re on the show to tell me something surprising that I don’t know. So it could be anything you’d like to share, go for it.
Colson Steber (01:52)
Well, I feel like I’d like for you to know some of who I am.
as we get into this conversation with between ourselves with the audience as in my own personal mantras relentless intentional action and how I look at the world as like I’ve had the first fift people say the first fifteen years of your career is to v develop a point of view and then the second fifteen years is to do it. And I’m like fifteen years in. So now I have this point of view that is like our
role is in really like helping people to authentically understand who they are, who their business is in the market, and how that meets the reality of the market and really have a lot of confidence in the decisions that need to be made based on research. And I I think
what happens is is you learn enough to realize that you need to stay very, very curious because there’s you’re you’re very, very ignor I’m very ignorant as to all that there is to actually know.
Sean Jordan (02:59)
It was one of those things I remember when I was in high school, we were reading ⁓ Socrates and you know he was talking about how he didn’t know anything. And I thought, come on, you know, you’re like one of the world’s great philosophers. How could you be saying you don’t know anything? And I realized as I get older, the reason that he was saying that is because he actually understood things pretty well. Like this the more you know, the less you realize that you know.
Colson Steber (03:17)
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Sean Jordan (03:23)
And and I I think that’s why curiosity is such an important part of what you and I do, you know, where we are out there asking questions and trying to learn from people because ⁓ we have to be surprised constantly. We have to learn how to let people say things that we haven’t heard before so we can get new points of view and come back with new insights. Totally true.
Colson Steber (03:42)
And be able to have
empathy for them as well as the context and you know apply kind of all of these disparate pieces into like, well, what what what does that mean about who we are? ⁓ which for me has ⁓ strangely been more and more affected in recent years on my own like spiritual growth as well as ⁓ business growth. So
Sean Jordan (04:11)
It’s it’s always fun to see the trajectories our lives take. And you know, for me, I I went from being a very ⁓ when I was in college and high school, you probably wouldn’t like me very much. I was pretty narrow minded guy and I had a very particular point of view about the world and I went through a transformation and had to learn how to think differently and see people differently and and be a little more accepting just of other points of view, but ⁓
That put me on a trajectory where I am now, where now it’s like I I love to hear different points of view. I’m not challenged by them in in a way that makes me feel like I’m personally threatened. Instead I’m like, I want to hear it because I might see something something differently when it’s done. So
Colson Steber (04:50)
What makes us researchers?
Sean Jordan (04:52)
Very true. Very true. Well, you know, in this series on the marketing gateway, we’re focused on the St. Louis area and you and I first met when you were back here in St. Louis. I know you you have moved on since, but tell me a little bit about how you came to live and work in the St. Louis area.
Colson Steber (05:06)
I mean I’m claiming as my hometown because I was born there and in ⁓ Mercy West and where in the same place as my kids were all born. And that’s where my father’s family is from, even though I mostly grew up in rural Missouri and then moved back there after
at the end of high school and then again after college and like started my family there until COVID hit and I had gotten very serious about how to design my life and what it is that I needed to figure out about how to do so and I went I was that person that was like, Well I don’t like I I want to experience going outdoors and I want to and these are the things I want and like always vacationed
and said I would like to live where I vacation and so then I made it happen.
Sean Jordan (06:05)
That’s awesome. And you’re you’re down in Florida now, right?
Colson Steber (06:08)
Yeah, it made it socially acceptable in twenty twenty to move away. So I was able to do so.
Sean Jordan (06:14)
A lot of people moved during that time and there were there were a lot of changes in just our our local ⁓ you know, marketing and research landscape in Saint Louis as people kind of shifted around. So ⁓ we still see still see the after effects of that. Well, what’s something about the St. Louis area that you wish other people knew?
Colson Steber (06:16)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
mean the the makeup of you know what the ninety seven different municipalities that make up like the county and like the St. Louis area and the kind of amount of diversity of different culture that you can gain from all of the people as well as like the reality of the great benefit of St. Louis is in ⁓ how some of the ⁓
like Science Center Zoo and all those things are all free and enjoyable to all. ⁓ and there like there is a lot that St. Louis has to offer in terms of like ⁓ being a great place for a family and people to ⁓ like enjoy themselves.
Sean Jordan (07:27)
It’s so true. You know, I’m planning a trip to Chicago this weekend with my family, and I was just looking for fun things to do while we’re up there. And every single thing costs at least $20 or $30 a person. I mean, it’s not cheap. And that’s not to dish Chicago. I mean, the reason they have to charge money is because there’s so many people there that that helps to keep the crowds down a little bit. But almost every free thing up there is just, you know, going out on trails or going out at a park or things like that. And so, ⁓ St. Louis, we have all these awesome amenities that are free.
Colson Steber (07:38)
Yeah.
Sean Jordan (07:56)
For anybody. I mean, you can be visiting, you could be local, and ⁓ you just don’t see that a lot in in many other cities that you go to. So I I do appreciate that for sure.
Well, I think, gosh, you and I met back when you were here in St. Louis. ⁓ you were, I think, okay, so I I part of the SIUE Master of Marketing Research program and I was there for a board meeting. And you guys, you and partner of yours from the Insights Association came in and you guys were recruiting students to be part of a case competition. And I remember this because I got tapped to be the advisor to the students, and the goal was to have the the students.
Colson Steber (08:19)
Right.
Sean Jordan (08:35)
And some professionals kind of do a bake off to see who could come up with a better ⁓ case study for a real world research case. And ⁓ it it was really fun. And I I I I I that was I think when you and I first met. And then also I know you’re through the MRX Pros group, which is a ⁓ international group of marketing researchers. It’s free. Actually, you were the one that introduced me to it. They have a book club and all kinds of other fun stuff that they do.
And ⁓ that’s a great way for us researchers to stay in touch and to tap each other for ⁓ ideas and and resources and things like that. So you yourself are a great resource. I know I’ve I’ve heard you speak many times. I have seen you know out there just sharing ⁓ insights and ideas with people. So tell me a little bit about how you got started being such a great networker and why it’s important for those of us who are providing services like research to do that.
Colson Steber (09:26)
Yeah, I often say I’m probably not an extrovert, but I grew up with a father who is like the definition of extrovert. And so my floor of the baseline of what I think is appropriate is like really out there to most people. ⁓ and then I’m I’m
generally been very willing to like share my own personal journey and relate to people as I’ve worked to got like very, very into personal self-development and like how to use the great journey of entrepreneurship to actually develop as a person over the last
So when I lived in St. Louis for years, like I had a goal to know everyone in research in St. Louis. And I my goal was to have ⁓ breakfast or lunch with at least one person every week. ⁓ and
then I was I spent eleven years on doing Insights Association chapter board leadership and was the president of two different chapters ⁓ and have continued to support that with team members of mine that have served in the same types of positions and then ⁓ in the pause of twenty twenty, you know,
⁓ Jamin Brazil
I I was literally sitting there thinking, like we we need to do like a weekly meetup or something and then like I got invited and fortunately I had met him and considered him someone like twenty years ahead of me that I needed to learn from and he had known that so he invited me to one of the first sessions of what became MRX pros and ⁓ then after a couple years of him having run it myself and Kai Fuentes and Frankie Lipinski and took it over and like
ran it and that I mean it’s still going
and ⁓ you know, we’re
continually booking speakers and talking to people
I I genuinely feel I eighty percent or more of my time is spent doing only the things that I want to be doing that I feel like I can be uniquely good at in contributing back to my team and my customers and ⁓ that means that I have like a network of people that are
like all my who’s of people that are doing all of the things that i in the web that we weave ⁓ to make a big bigger impact on the world.
Sean Jordan (11:57)
Yeah. And, you know, I used to kind of have a very competitive mindset. I had, you know, I worked in sales for a while. And so sales makes you competitive. ⁓ but as I have been in the agency space, I’ve been doing this for about 17 years now. ⁓ I I’ve learned like most of the people that I’m interacting with as colleagues, they’re not my competitors. They’re not working with the same clients that I’m working with. They’re not doing the same kinds of work that I’m doing. But ⁓ we can support each other and we can learn from each other in ways that
We mutually benefit and whether that’s ⁓ just learning new skills or techniques or approaches, or whether that’s getting introductions to people, or whether that is actually partnering together, as I have with many researchers, and I know you have too. ⁓ it it allows us to expand what we’re able to do in a way that is positive. And, you know, I I I was joking the other day, like my goal this year is to try to put money in people’s pockets through ⁓ you know, sharing the work that I have. And ⁓ I I’ve been happy that I’ve been able to do that because
I I know all these great people that can help me on projects. And then that allows me to go out and do even more projects because I’m not just focused on one thing at a time. I can I can work on many things. I think that that’s one of the secrets that you kind of learn as you’ve been doing this for a while, right?
Colson Steber (13:09)
Absolutely.
Yeah. And I mean it and I mean what w I mean like we made one of our core values as a company abundance. ‘Cause that I mean in reality that’s what
my point of view is of what we’re working to create, right? Is clarity as to like your whatever those one or two major strategic initiatives are that you’re gonna invest in and doing research on to like have clarity around the decisions that are being made. I want to it it’s based upon kind of like
like abundance is inherent and and it’s the nature of the universe and it’s a matter of like ⁓ like how do we ⁓ you know align ourselves with that and make it happen. and that that’s my view on the world. So
Sean Jordan (13:54)
Yeah. I I I love that core value by the way, abundance.
Yeah, abundance. Like I I used to say ⁓ prosperity is contagious. You know, if if we if we are doing well, ⁓ other people around us will do well too, and we we can all do well together. And so I I think that’s a great core value. And it’s not a you know, the way you’re wording it is not a way that’s self-serving. It’s just a way that we’re we’re trying to seek something where there’s there’s health and there’s growth and there’s opportunity. I I love that.
Colson Steber (14:03)
Right.
Right. That that authentic alignment back to having it work.
Sean Jordan (14:28)
That’s so fantastic. Well, you and I have both been in this marketing research space for a long time, and we’ve served a lot of different clients who are, you know, solving marketing problems or testing creative concepts or who are trying to figure out digital marketing strategies or go-to-market strategies or things like that. I mean, I’ve done all of those kinds of studies and more, and I’m sure you have too. But one thing that we’re talking about a lot in our industry right now is how much we really need to adjust our approach to make sure we’re giving the sort of information that people need. And
You know, in the old days, we did surveys by mail or on the phone. I still do a lot of phone work still, but mail mailwork is pretty much dried up. But most quantitative work is all online now, and a lot of qualitative work, if it’s being done, there’s at least an online component to it. So how should marketers and researchers be thinking about this brave new world that we’re in, where everybody wants things fast, they want them digitally, they want they want it to be able to move at the speed of light. How do we adjust to that?
Colson Steber (15:27)
I look at it in terms of like the outcome that has to be delivered is the confidence in the decisions that are being made and the and the, you know, increased sales velocity of the
thing that it is we’re working that that we’re working to inform the decisions on, right? Or the go-to-market, ⁓ like having that clarity as to what’s going to happen as we move forward. And in order to get that,
it’s our responsibility. It’s the outcome we’re in control of as researchers to say, well, where do we get that answer? And ⁓ like
We we have gotta meet people where they are.
Anytime someone says that they’re overwhelmed or like the rate of change is exponentially blah, blah, blah, like, and they kind of talk about it as it’s the fastest it’s ever been. I’m like, well, it’s also the slowest it’ll ever be.
like we need to get people to participate. We ⁓ you know ⁓ make decisions accordingly as to how to meet people where they are. There’s
a ton of challenges that we can say there as to like, well, how do we get how do we have some level of confidence in the ⁓ sampling and ⁓ validity and ⁓ bet bias, but like guess what? It always exists and it’s in the doing the work of like quantitative sampling, of working to have as diverse of an ability to get information that
we can and get it to be representative that like we do inform the right decisions being made by our clients. So
Sean Jordan (17:18)
Yeah. Well and and and you mentioned decisions and that is you know traditionally marketing research kind of went from being we’re just supplying data to we’re trying to help make decisions. And now we’re kind of in this lane where, and I I’ve seen this evolve over my time in the in the field. I used to get my hand slapped if I made any kind of recommendations. Even if I had expertise in the area, they’d slap my hand and go, Nope, you’re here for research, you’re not here to be a consultant. But now, especially post COVID.
Colson Steber (17:28)
Right.
Sean Jordan (17:45)
When I’m called in to present research, the question is, well, what do we do with this? And I’m expected to have an answer. Like ⁓ they’re not looking for me to just provide the data anymore, right?
Colson Steber (17:51)
Yeah. We we
grew up in in different generations. And like I said, I’ve carved out over the last fifteen years doing work for consulting firms and such, right? So like they don’t while they’re going to take lead on it, and we might be the silent, like, you know, our job is to be in the background, like they
we we’re about to put out, right? Like we want to be sure that you’re the most trusted decision maker that like has the confidence to champion the the thing that needs to happen. Like so much as like, well we’re going to do yes like have rigor of the actual methodology and the design
specifically to the through line of the outcome, which is that we’re going to do that analytics and synthesis to say, so then this is what we see that the market reality is, and this is how we see it aligning with who you are. You can agree or disagree with that, but this is like this is the direction that we see to go down. And ⁓ and that results in people
you know, gaining that confidence and okay, well, we’re going to invest in this. Because it’s
there’s so such a confluence of, you know, chaotic factors in the world that doing a research project is like putting a stake in the ground to say, yes, but this is reality and therefore this is how we’re going to decide to move forward.
And I that’s the role I think research plays for customers.
Sean Jordan (19:44)
Totally, totally. And you know, one of the things that we have to do with research as well is we’re no longer just there to provide data, but we have to kind of package it in a way where we we can give some value to the the marketing process, whether that is in aiding decision making, whether it’s identifying something that is is genuinely insightful, not just a a fact or a statistic, but a genuine insight, or maybe ⁓ helping to prioritize thing decisions that are being made so that they can make them in the right order.
And I I think that’s a big shift because ⁓ you know, again, when I started in this field, like data was just data. People were just looking at it. But now I think marketers have become so keyed into using data in digital marketing that they really look at us as, well, we’re providing the kind of data they can’t easily get, but they still want that that that consultancy ⁓ part of the process in order to be able to make sense of what we’re providing them.
Colson Steber (20:38)
Yep, absolutely.
Sean Jordan (20:41)
Well, you you’d alluded to ⁓ AI solutions earlier, and there are so many of these. I I get pitched these all the time, I’m sure you do too, but ⁓ some of them are things like digital twins or synthetic respondents. And I’ll I’ll just explain for our audience a digital twin often is being pitched as kind of like you take a survey response and you put it into an AI program and then it can kind of ⁓ mimic what that person would say.
And a synthetic respondent is just a complete make-believe respondent. It might be based on a real data set, but it’s a make-believe person. And there are variations of these terms, so don’t hold me to them because people use them interchangeably sometimes. But I can see a case for them, but they also worry me a lot because they’re not real. And also I kind of feel like they’re looking backwards because they’re based on training data from the past. They’re not based on the present. So t Colson, tell me a little bit. How are you feeling about these methods? How do you feel that they’re impacting research?
Colson Steber (21:35)
I’m just I’ve I’ve said for a long time, I believe it’s true, like we’re getting more data driven as business decision makers, marketers, you know, on right, the the the pie is bigger in terms of the perceived value of analytics and insights work. The reality is, is that I there are I mean
From our own reality, right? Like if someone drafts this is what we think we want to know and I do a little bit of asking some good questions and transcribe that recording and then we drop it into AI and ask it to produce like the questionnaire output.
I can get something that is I don’t know 70, 80% of the way there, and then I can make it use our expertise to make it like simplify it, make it more concise, get it even more just like right on, right? You kinda gotta see that as the value of ⁓ asking your questions and ⁓
to the AI, to the digital twin. I I think the ⁓ like so that you’re even more focused and more strategic when you go out and talk to the human beings. And so I think that as has been the trend, right? So you were talking about the change in methodology. The business that I originally bought, which was a little over 10 years ago, but
That I bought it, but it had been around for 20 years before that was a telephone interviewing data collection business. And guess what? That was the mode in which you collected data. And like you said, the delivery of that product was data. And you and that was your role as researchers, was to kind of collect this opinion. ⁓ and
like the evolution into like strategic insights consulting and ⁓ is ⁓ i is is similar to the like this isn’t what actually makes sense to do anymore and ⁓ we’ve gotta evolve
Sean Jordan (24:07)
Yeah, and you know, I think one of the things that I have been thinking a lot about, ⁓ I I I I’m very skeptical of replacing primary research with synthetic research. You know, I I I’m gonna continue to be because it’s just my my training tells me it’s probably not a good thing. But I think where it is useful is a lot of times the the questions that you’re asking in a survey are really, really important and we don’t put enough time and thought into those questions. And traditionally we would pilot test, right? So we would we would write a survey, we put it in front of a few people.
See how it worked, and then we would tweak and iterate. Well, I do think that some of these solutions are good for that. Unfortunately, that’s not gonna make anybody a lot of money. You know, so nobody’s selling that as a solution. But if you I mean, I I use Question Pro, I’ve been on Qualtrics before. They’re building an AI integration. I think if you can do it in a platform like that, it makes a lot of sense. But if I were like, if I were gonna make a decision that was gonna cost millions and millions of dollars, I would never wanna rely on that kind of stuff unless I could gauge it against real people and
make sure that real people were in alignment with whatever the AI models were saying. So why bother with the AI models in the first place? You know, just go and talk to the real people. And that’s kind of where I think that things were probably gonna land in the in the long run.
Colson Steber (25:20)
You’re and you’re right. Because you’re not go as you pointed out, you’re taking a historical data set, so you’re not going to get diversity of if if you bring in something that’s unexpected because it’s not part of
what is being used to analyze. But like the reality is is AI also has that ability to draw on far more information than we can retain and recall as human beings. And so like there’s a role for it to play. I mean I I I think solving this is going to be valuable because like
Right now I know one of our biggest customers, like our work that we’re enlisted in doing and they’re spending a quarter million dollars on is to take all of the qual and quant output and build the digital twin so that they can ⁓ ask a whole lot of questions and then
sorry, the the analogy of moving away from the telephone methodology was ten to fifteen years ago it was moving from phone to online because you
you used to do the brand health tracker by
Getting all of these data points in this one way, and this being what representation looked like, and you had to evolve based off of what technology provided. Now we’re evolving based on what technology is providing, but that being with AI means that our role and the value we add is even more like, well, what it we have to know what makes us unique, what’s our genius, what’s the difference we make, and ⁓ and and use the AI as the tool.
Sean Jordan (27:05)
Agreed. And I you know, I when I talk with other researchers who are looking not they’re not selling a solution, but they’re looking at this soberly. Like, how do we integrate this into serving our clients, serving the marketing needs that our departments have, or you know, whatever else? I think that’s where a lot of us are landing is that we we have to look at this way like ⁓ the same way we look at Excel or an online survey tool or anything else that we use. It’s it’s there to help us. It’s there to to make our our capabilities
Better and stronger, it’s not there to replace us, and it’s certainly not there to do it all for us. You know, we have to learn how to use it as a tool correctly. And, you know, like qualit scale is a big buzzword right now. Like everybody wants to talk about how do we do ⁓ qualitative research in a faster, better way? Can we have it be AI administered or can we have it be AI analyzed instantly? ⁓ sure, you can do those things. The technology is there now. Is it as good as having a human being do it? Well, no, because a human being
is keyed in on emotions. And emotions are just as an important a part of qualitative research as the verbal data. So until the AI tools are better at keying in on emotions with a lot of accuracy, and they they may be one day, ⁓ a human is still going to be the best possible outcome. But if you’re only concerned about the verbal data, you know, you might be able to use those methods and then do more with the the extra data you’re able to accumulate. So it’s the trade-off is not in
Colson Steber (28:16)
Yeah.
Sean Jordan (28:32)
What tool is better? It’s in what information do we need and how to what’s the best and most efficient way to get it? And you know, when we did mail surveys years ago, or telephone surveys, we did them because they were the most expedient way to get the information. it was much easier than going door to door and knocking on people’s doors and hassling them to answer an interview with census workers might. Well, the same is true with ⁓ online platforms today. You know, we use those because they’re they’re fast, they get what we need, they’re they go right to people’s phones where they are. ⁓
Colson Steber (28:47)
Well, yeah.
Sean Jordan (29:02)
So AI tools are probably gonna gonna fit somewhere within that mold too, where they’re helping to speed us up and get us better quality information, but they still aren’t gonna be the replacement for what we do. But anyhow. Sorry to get on my AI soapbox. Yeah.
Colson Steber (29:14)
Yep, exactly. We’re we’re we’re making the same point. I think you articulated
it better than I did.
Sean Jordan (29:22)
But you know, the the thing that concerns me about AI, and I I I again, you know, as as researchers, we we can talk shop a little bit here, but we have these online panels that we use. And again, for our audience, I’ll just explain online panels, they’re people that have opted into being available for the research process. So you want to go do a survey really quickly, you could deploy it within hours to people that are there and available to take surveys. But the problem is we’re seeing a lot of fraud in these panels, and they’re using the panelists are using AI tools to pretend to be people they’re not.
So that they can take surveys and get paid for them. And there are a handful of research agencies out there who are ⁓ are really doing something about this. And I, you know, I I certainly am keeping up on it. But there’s also some, there’s one where the founder went to jail, I think, because they were they they had so much fraud they weren’t doing anything about that ⁓ it it was a big ripple in our industry. So ⁓ we have to be really careful about making sure that the data we’re getting from people is real and we have to think a lot about
How do we make that balance out with costs? So what are some approaches that you’ve had with online panels to make sure that you’re getting good quality data, but still ⁓ also being able to maximize the speed and the lower cost of them?
Colson Steber (30:33)
I mean we I feel like everyone in our industry feels as if we spend an inordinate amount of time ⁓ trying to be sure that we’re like including everyone that like is the real person giving a real answer, but we’re also like testing and identifying those that are not. And it’s
increasingly trickier to do, right? So the the technology advancement on detection is also rapidly advancing. ⁓ and then I mean it’s it’s funny to me, right? Like data processing used to be data entry and then double checking the data entry and right like but now it’s
I mean, we’re still spending the same amount of time. And there is this human element, and we’re we’ve got the you know tools that our industry provides us technology-wise baked in, which controls for a lot. But I would say even after that, ⁓ like we have to do a lot of our own work. And I would say the biggest, the number one thing.
for us is that about half of our business is in agriculture and animal health and we couldn’t find any reliable source and so we created our own, right? And we got very, very serious about
like database management, recruiting practices, how do we actually get develop the relationship with these people? And we do tens of thousands of surveys a year that we actually ⁓ you know, with farmers and then establish that they are real people and do this thing. And then ⁓ we like work to have a real relationship with them where they want to be in the know and we pay them
more substantially to operate, but like the
kind of cost of associated with our community of agriculture and veterinary professionals is like 10x of the standard that you pay when you go to like an online panel marketplace, right? Because it’s just not even the same product. Right. So I just like I avoid ever calling our panel a panel like for that reason because I need it to not be associated with that.
⁓ at all. ⁓ and then when we do out of necessity, because we do work in consumer world all the time, and we have to go with a low cost option, you’re like layering in all of these different ways, and then just
Not out of particular demand, but we invested in like in that rabbit hole, seeing one of the biggest risks to our business is around data security, like got in and did ISO certification and went down the path of ⁓ like really robust data security because it plays right back into managing fraud and ⁓ and and
looking at a few things now but I’d hate to name drop them when I gotta like vet them.
my own self as to where we’re gonna invest our dollars in improved. I I really like the idea of things that were promised by like the blockchain a decade ago where we could have like decentralized verification model tracking all of these different disparate sources and creating either like a score or quality
that outcome. So ⁓ I think I think the technology to solve it is also coming to existence. But it of course comes into existence based off of a need, which means that I think, you know, right now it seems as if the fraud is winning, but that pendulum will swing back and forth.
Sean Jordan (34:58)
Yeah, and I I just got a notice from one of the panel providers that I use that they have some new ⁓ bot detection software that they’re employing that they’re really, you know, happy about. ⁓ this is a panel company and they’re they’re one of the reputable ones, but they have, you know, 30 to 40 percent fraud rate. ⁓ so thirty to forty percent of people that participate in the panel initially are just dropped. And I don’t know how many of those are coming on their end where they’re dropping them automatically, and how many of them are coming on my end. But ⁓ I know I’ve
sent back a significant number of, hey, we gotta drop these people and and resample ⁓ recently. So anything is better than the the status quo for sure.
Colson Steber (35:34)
Yeah, every time we if
you ha anytime you cite that stat, it’s almost unbelievable and it seems completely not credible to even be using it at all. Because like, well, how many false positives are you getting? And then how many are you actually missing that you don’t realize?
Sean Jordan (35:38)
Mm-hmm.
Colson Steber (35:52)
I d I don’t know. I think I mean, as clients, you have to put a lot of trust in that research and analytics provider to have a point of view and take responsibility to the
And I think that’s the role, right? So like when when researchers say, well, the clients don’t even care, they just want the decent the cheapest price, it’s like that’s not true. Well, like, I don’t know. Like
We we we we can’t shift responsibility away from like it’s it is our job as the ones, as you said, we need to step up above data collection and into like consulting i on the outcomes of the research. Like well part of that is like data quality is an outcome that we’re inherently responsible for and we are the people that have to be the ones that get it right.
Sean Jordan (36:47)
Totally true. And, you know, again, this is where you know, if if if you’re listening and you are gonna do a research project and you need a professional researcher, this is the value that we bring. But you know, you don’t wanna you don’t you don’t you don’t need us for the the smaller projects if you’re just doing a quick survey or something, but we can we can always advise you on that. But what what we can help you with is when you’re making these big decisions that are gonna cost millions and millions of dollars, making sure that the data input is correct. That’s really where ⁓ professional researchers are are the most valuable for marketers. But
You know, I I tell marketers all the time too, like, ⁓ I think there’s so much value in doing qualitative research yourself. ⁓ some marketers call it discovery interviews or things like that, but ⁓ where you go and you just talk to customers and you just listen to them and then bringing in a researcher for more structured studies down the road, but that listening has to be embedded in the process from the beginning. ⁓ if you’re bringing in researchers because you haven’t been listening, you’re too late.
You you you miss the boat in terms of what you need to be hearing because the researchers are only going to hear the most superficial details because you haven’t been listening at all.
Colson Steber (37:50)
Right. Yeah. I mean I the best customers are always the ones that to us, right, are always the ones that understand that it is not it is not like well they made this thing and they have to figure out how to get the world to understand how great they are. It’s the businesses that
Want are are looking to mesh like, well, this is what we’re the best in the world at, with like, this is the perception of us, the perception of our competitors, where we live within that landscape. How’s the market reality there? Like, what will they pay? And then I can I can tell you a lot. If you want, if you already have that mindset that like my job as a business is to meet the world, and then when I fulfill their needs, they’ll buy.
Like we can really bring clarity to that. And if not, then and like and you’re like thinking, ⁓ like, hey, use research as this hammer to get them to do the thing that I need them to do, like, well, yeah, you’re gonna be disappointed in the result. Because you’re not really showing up to listen.
Sean Jordan (39:10)
That’s so true. That’s
so true. That’s a great analogy. Well, here’s another analogy. ⁓ I I am a dinosaur because I am running a full service research agency. I mean, ours has been around for 43 years and we’re we’re pretty traditional. We still do it all. ⁓ a lot of people don’t do that anymore. But, you know, last year I was feeling like a dinosaur because it was rough. I wasn’t thinking about growth. I was just trying to survive and
Colson Steber (39:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sean Jordan (39:36)
Fortunately for me, and I I know for you two, like this year’s better. So that’s good news. But I don’t want to be in this age of dinosaurs situation where I’m looking up one day and there’s this giant meteor coming down and it’s about to strike insights researchers off the face of the earth because we didn’t adjust or adapt quickly enough. So
I know I’m thinking about the future, you’re thinking about the future. What are some thoughts you have about how we can position ourselves as insights researchers to be able to avoid that meteor meteoric ⁓ extinction event that might be coming our way?
Colson Steber (40:08)
People are going to want to work with other people to figure out how to ⁓ make an impact on the people that they want to make an impact on, right? And our like our ability to be that like sage advice with ⁓ I mean it’s not really about our point of view, right? It’s about
Our ability and willingness to have really built-up expertise in like understanding that market point of view and having it affect like being confident in the decisions that need to be made. Like, and so I don’t I don’t think that there is any technological change or or
AI solution that like replaces that and makes it go away. It’s not sexy in some of how we’re externally defined, and there’s going to be these waves associated with like, I mean, right now it feels like even when I’ve talked to clients, right? Well, what do I have money to spend on? It would be if you can tell me how to implement AI in my business. Right? And which is
It’s not our expertise of consulting. ⁓ they they are our output can assist, but it’s just not going to be like being able to be authentic to who we are, knowing that more and more, having ⁓ you know, having an that abundance mindset that
like the the opportunity will arise is exactly what I I I mean I’m very connected to hopefully like it just you know I’m doing what’s in my control. I know that we make a positive difference. I actually look at it a little bit differently for you and I. You’re not that much older than me and we’ve got
you know, I think three quarters of the full service strategy consulting firms are run under archaic models by people that are twenty years older than us and that ha are not willing ⁓ to listen and adapt in the same ways that they were and are fear-based about how the apocalypse is now.
Sean Jordan (42:39)
Mm-hmm.
Colson Steber (42:52)
⁓ that doesn’t have to be like that’s it like companies are gonna buy from the people who know that’s not true and are going to create a bigger future. So I I think we’re in a net market advantage.
Sean Jordan (43:02)
You’re you’re so right. I’m yeah.
It’s it it’s it’s very true. And in fact, I I think on the marketing agency side it’s kind of working that way too, more broadly, where ⁓ the people that are thriving and surviving right now are the ones that embrace digital marketing and the ones that are struggling and finding it hard are the ones that are still trying to do traditional media. And it doesn’t mean that traditional media is dead or that there’s not a place for it, but if it’s all they all they know how to do and they haven’t warmed up to the the new reality of where marketing has gone.
They’re they’re in just as much trouble as anybody because they haven’t adapted with the time. So I think we’re in the same boat with ⁓ research. And you know, I mean, one of the things that I’ve been learning l recently is I have to say yes when people want things faster because that more than price, that is what loses me work if I can’t say yes to when they want things faster. So how do I do that? Well, there’s ways to do things fast. I just have to be willing to do them and I have to use my expertise to make sure it’s still gonna result in good data because
They can’t wait months and months for a research report the way they used to be able to. They need to have it within days or weeks. So, ⁓ yeah.
Colson Steber (44:09)
Yeah, I mean
To win new work, you have to take risks. And it’s always this measure of like, how do I meet that market requirement? But like I I mean it immediately you you say that and I think, gosh, just thirty days ago I stared down a proposal from a really great customer to us where like
That the you know mid-year meeting was coming up at the end of June. And so they would have to have it completed. And I mean, we decided to define a scope of what could get done inside of the four weeks that would be handed to us. But basically said, well, here’s a realistic plan of what can be delivered.
And I don’t think this is actually something you should spend seventy grand to do because I don’t like you’re gonna get, you know, less than half of what you would actually need out of it. So you probably need to go right, like I it and it’s very, very challenging to be in that spot over and over and over again.
Sean Jordan (45:07)
Yeah.
And and that’s another great point too is that there are times where we have to back away and say, it can’t be done. We cannot bake a cake in 20 minutes. You know, it’s just not gonna happen. ⁓ we have to be willing to stand back and and know what the limitations are, but maybe advise the the organizations either here’s the timeline you need to be thinking about, or here’s what we can accomplish in that time frame. And you we need to have a discussion about whether that’s valuable to you or not. I think that’s again a big part of how things have changed because
Colson Steber (45:37)
Yeah.
Sean Jordan (45:58)
I cannot imagine having conversations like that ⁓ when I started, you know, but these days, yeah, I think it’s ⁓ research as a partnership to ⁓ marketing departments, to marketing agencies, to decision makers is is just a big shift. So ⁓ thrilled that you and I get to be in this space together. I know we’ll have many more conversations as the years go on, but ⁓ thanks for for all of your insights, your passion. ⁓ you know, and
Colson Steber (46:20)
Yeah, yeah.
Sean Jordan (46:26)
I know ⁓ one thing I always ask guests to do at the end of the show is to plug something. We’re we’re all marketers, we’re all plugging something, so here’s your chance. ⁓ plug anything that you’d like.
Colson Steber (46:37)
you’re one of the good ones. I’m ⁓ always rooting for you, Sean. ⁓ I also ⁓ I mean my own business think the easiest way to engage with us is to find me on LinkedIn because I’m continually working to like encourage positive action and ⁓ like put myself out in the world as well as our company.
and yeah, I mean I I think I’ve done a decent job of representing who we are, which is typically what I like to do. So ⁓ I don’t know that I have more to plug other than to say ⁓ it’s typically worth it to invest in research, ⁓ because you you know, gain the confidence that you need to have.
Sean Jordan (47:19)
And you know, we w we marketers
And and we marketing researchers are always so bad at remembering to say things like the name of our company, the name of your company is. There we go. And I know I said it in the intro, but I just wanted to make sure I said it again. Yeah.
Colson Steber (47:42)
Clarity access.
Yeah, yeah, clarity access, clarity
with a c spelled with a Q.
Sean Jordan (47:50)
That’s right. And we’ll of course have a link to Colson’s Company Clarity Access in the show notes. But it it’s it’s it’s it’s a long running joke that we’ve had it here at RPG because we’ll we’ll go in and talk to somebody about all the things we can do and we’ll forget to mention the name of our company. And we’re just we’re not good at marketers sometimes and we have to be better at it. So
Colson Steber (48:07)
People because people
don’t remember who you are. They remember how you make them feel.
Sean Jordan (48:11)
That is so true. That is so true. And I’ll just I’ll just say Colson mentioned follow find him on LinkedIn. I highly recommend that you do because ⁓ he is one of the good ones too. And he is a great resource. And you know, I’ve heard him speak many times on matters of substance where he’s just talking about how to be a better person, how to be a better consultant, how to make take your your knowledge and really use it in great ways to benefit other people. And you can find all of that on LinkedIn. So definitely connect with him there. But Colson, thanks so much for being on the show. It’s been a pleasure catching up with you and
I wish you well. I hope the year continues to be good for for you as well as it is has been for us. And I am sure we’ll probably see you again, ⁓ if not here on the marketing gateway in something connected to it. So thanks so much.
Colson Steber (48:53)
Absolutely, thank you.
Sean Jordan (48:56)
Well, I want to thank Colson for being on the marketing gateway. It’s always a pleasure to get to chat. ⁓ we often, when we talk, get to have really substantial discussions like these about these big topics. Because, like I said, we’re we’re swimming in the the same waters and we’re seeing things from different points of view because we serve different industries. But ⁓ as we mentioned in the interview, one of the ways that we get better is by learning how to trust and rely on each other. And
To be colleagues who can share ideas and practices and resources sometimes. And ⁓ Colson’s always been one of the proponents for that in our industry. He’s somebody who’s really spent a lot of time growing and developing relationships with others so that he can help them with the problems that they’re facing. And I appreciate that about him and so glad to have had him on the show. And of course, you can go to clarityaccess.com. That’s clarity with a Q, not a C, ⁓ and check the show notes for that to find out more about his firm.
Especially if you are are involved in any kind of agricultural ⁓ types of research, he can really help you out with that. ⁓ but as well, find him on LinkedIn and connect with him and just know that he’s a guy you definitely want to pay attention to. He’s definitely what I would call a thought leader in many ways, but particularly in being a great person in this space that we all are working in. So if you are interested in being guest on the marketing gateway, or if you know someone who would be, please visit.
The Marketing Gateway.com. Click sign up to be a guest. We would love to have you because we are always looking for new guests. And ⁓ you know, we I hope that we can continue to have great discussions like these in the weeks to come. We have many more guests that are scheduled that we’re going to be recording soon. So look forward to that. But in the meantime, I’m Sean in St. Louis. This has been the Marketing Gateway, and we will see you next time.
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